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Frankzilch Wrote:wths74 Wrote:Frankzilch Wrote:wths74 Wrote:Sleeping with little boys when you are in your 40s is inexcusable,
I know you said "sleeping" but some people say "sleeping" when they mean "having sex". Did you mean sleeping as in catching some ZZZZ's? I can't imagine someone would think there is something wrong with that?
Was going to blast you for second but then I realized you were being sarcastic. At least I hope so.
I was not being sarcastic. Your inclination to "blast me" only exposes your ignorance of the subject matter at hand. such practice is known as cosleeping and is common in many cultures. My intent was to go in the direction of such behavior merely being a cultural habit but after some reading I'll go a step further and say it is our western disapproval of such practice that is at the core of our tendency to dysfunction.
The following study entitled: "SLEEP HABITS IN NATIVE BRAZILIAN TERENA CHILDREN IN THE STATE OF MATO GROSSO DO SUL, BRAZIL" http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=s...8000500001 includes the following conclusion.
"Theoretically, we conclude that the sleep habits observed, so characteristic of the Terena, reflect social-cultural traits. Cosleeping with numerous family members, in the same bed and in the same bedroom, evidence the importance of family links in the culture of Terena values; also, the architecture of Terena bedroom perfectly adapts to these family links. This culture is absolutely distinct from the contemporary urban western culture, including the Brazilian one, in which main values are attributed to individuality. Such urban western culture is reflected in the sleep habits requiring individual bedrooms, individual beds or individual TVs, even during early childhood, to the point of considering other alternative sleep habits as inexistent or inadequate. Therefore, Terena values emphasize strong family links, distinct from urban values, which emphasize individuality."
My conclusion is that a lot of our problems in our western society as a whole are rooted in this drive away from family values and toward individuality. Just look to the youth who gravitate toward street gangs to fulfill, in part, this desire for security of family. This emphasis on individuality in our western culture is a brief aberration when compared to the whole of human history. I'd say we are the screwed up ones. But that will be hard for some to see because of their inability to step outside the box that imprisons them.
We're not talking about family co-sleeping here. I sure as hell wouldn't let my children sleep in your bed, WTHS's bed, Michael Jackson's bed, Farrah Fawcett's bed...
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kellyann1293 Wrote:Frankzilch Wrote:wths74 Wrote:Frankzilch Wrote:wths74 Wrote:Sleeping with little boys when you are in your 40s is inexcusable,
I know you said "sleeping" but some people say "sleeping" when they mean "having sex". Did you mean sleeping as in catching some ZZZZ's? I can't imagine someone would think there is something wrong with that?
Was going to blast you for second but then I realized you were being sarcastic. At least I hope so.
I was not being sarcastic. Your inclination to "blast me" only exposes your ignorance of the subject matter at hand. such practice is known as cosleeping and is common in many cultures. My intent was to go in the direction of such behavior merely being a cultural habit but after some reading I'll go a step further and say it is our western disapproval of such practice that is at the core of our tendency to dysfunction.
The following study entitled: "SLEEP HABITS IN NATIVE BRAZILIAN TERENA CHILDREN IN THE STATE OF MATO GROSSO DO SUL, BRAZIL" http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=s...8000500001 includes the following conclusion.
"Theoretically, we conclude that the sleep habits observed, so characteristic of the Terena, reflect social-cultural traits. Cosleeping with numerous family members, in the same bed and in the same bedroom, evidence the importance of family links in the culture of Terena values; also, the architecture of Terena bedroom perfectly adapts to these family links. This culture is absolutely distinct from the contemporary urban western culture, including the Brazilian one, in which main values are attributed to individuality. Such urban western culture is reflected in the sleep habits requiring individual bedrooms, individual beds or individual TVs, even during early childhood, to the point of considering other alternative sleep habits as inexistent or inadequate. Therefore, Terena values emphasize strong family links, distinct from urban values, which emphasize individuality."
My conclusion is that a lot of our problems in our western society as a whole are rooted in this drive away from family values and toward individuality. Just look to the youth who gravitate toward street gangs to fulfill, in part, this desire for security of family. This emphasis on individuality in our western culture is a brief aberration when compared to the whole of human history. I'd say we are the screwed up ones. But that will be hard for some to see because of their inability to step outside the box that imprisons them.
We're not talking about family co-sleeping here. I sure as hell wouldn't let my children sleep in your bed, WTHS's bed, Michael Jackson's bed, Farrah Fawcett's bed...
We? Are you speaking for wths74?
You must have read something into my post that wasn't there because there is about a 0.0 percent chance that I'd want to sleep in the same bed as your children. But seriously, we are talking about SLEEPING here and not having SEX aren't we? If this were 200 years ago or if we were one of the many co-sleeping cultures of the world we wouldn't have this mindset at all.
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This isn't 200 years ago and this isn't another culture. A 40 something year old man does not sleep in a bed with little boys. This isn't a vacation gone bad or some natural disaster where they are forced to sleep together, Michael had a huge mansion with tons of bedrooms. What he did was wrong and bringing up other cultures or what happened hundreds of years ago doesn't help your argument. He was a sick person to do that and when asked during a interview why he did it he replied "to share the love". That my friend is not normal.
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wths74 re: Your Post 6/30 10:59pm---my point was that bad things are never mentioned when a person dies--did you know that Michael Jackson gave millions of dollars to charities? He was an Icon--did you really think that his death wouldn't make BIG NEWS the world over? My personal opinion is I believe that Michael Jackson thought he was a child ,since he didn't get a chance to live like one. His Father is to blame. (Off the topic) I cannot stand Jesse Jackson or that "so-called preacher (blank mind again). They manage to get on T.V. anyway they can just to be seen. Maybe if Jesse Jackson had been on T.V. the day he committed adultry--he'd been better off. bye
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<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.tmz.com/">http://www.tmz.com/</a><!-- m -->
The day his death was announced this website was mentioned. It seems to have all the latest about Michael.
I'm still reading conflicting reports as to whether the mom was just a 'vessel' for the first two children or they are half hers biologically. I only mention that because this site said it would obviously be an issue when the custody/estate battle begins.
Bd, you mean Reverand Al Sharpton? He certainly can appear anywhere fast if there is a microphone available. Here he is during a memorial at the Apollo showing his moves.
![[Image: reval.jpg]](http://www.drudgereport.com/reval.jpg)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://wcbstv.com/cbs2crew/michael.jackson.apollo.2.1065167.html">http://wcbstv.com/cbs2crew/michael.jack ... 65167.html</a><!-- m -->
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wths74 Wrote:This isn't 200 years ago and this isn't another culture. A 40 something year old man does not sleep in a bed with little boys. This isn't a vacation gone bad or some natural disaster where they are forced to sleep together, Michael had a huge mansion with tons of bedrooms. What he did was wrong and bringing up other cultures or what happened hundreds of years ago doesn't help your argument. He was a sick person to do that and when asked during a interview why he did it he replied "to share the love". That my friend is not normal.
Maybe Michael Jackson did have sinister motives with the children he "slept" with but then again maybe he did not. We really don't know for sure, do we?
I try to be careful with the use of that word "normal". I contend that merely sleeping with another person is not bad nor is "sharing love" a bad thing or wrong. I also contend that, in general, we westerners have been conditioned to believe (unreasonably) that such behavior is somehow wrong. Is it the bed or bedroom that makes it so wrong? If a child and an adult fall asleep on a sofa would it be "sick"? How about "sleeping together" in an airplane? Is sleeping together with another adult "sick" or does it make you gay? Is it the ages of the people involved that make it "sick"? Is it the bonding and closeness that sleeping together promotes really what we fear to the degree that we label it "sick"? Maybe I just don't associate sleeping with sex like some others do. Maybe the moral breach in this all lie only in the eyes of the beholder? It's almost the same thing as nudity. We have been conditioned to think nudity is somehow bad. How absurd. It's partly the fault of that religion crap but we also need to try harder to step outside the boxes we are prisoners of and try to see things from a different perspective. I know I don't like being a THOUGHT PRISONER. I try not to be whenever possible. Our culture needs to GROW UP.
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Fedup---I cracked up about the microphone. I've never seen a "Minister" dance like that. How did you get that off of the T.V. and onto this Forum :?: . NEVER MIND, I'm still trying to figure out "twitter" and the rest of that stuff. You know, I like that series "Queer as Folk"---what's my diagnosis?  (My eyes are closed)
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<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/07/02/jackson.wrap/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/0 ... index.html</a><!-- m -->
Here is some 'exclusive' video of two days before he died at rehearsal. Just click on the picture BD.
And now this...
Report: Jackson's Ex-Wife Debbie Rowe Says 'I Want My Children'
Thursday , July 02, 2009
Michael Jackson's ex-wife Debbie Rowe broke her silence Thursday and declared she wants custody of the two children she had with the late King of Pop.
"I want my children," Rowe said during a 90-minute phone interview with NBC-LA early Thursday.
Rowe, who married Jackson in 1996 and filed for divorce three years later, told the station she is willing to submit to DNA testing to prove maternity and psychological testing.
She also said she'll seek a restraining order to keep their grandfather, Joe Jackson, away from the children. Michael Jackson had a strained relationship with his father, who he said struck him as a child.
Rowe had initially signed a contract with Jackson surrendering her parental rights, but an appeals court threw out that contract in 2006, ruling that Rowe remained the legal parent of son Michael Joseph Jr., 12, and daughter Paris Michael Katherine, 11.
Rowe retained visitation rights while Jackson kept custody of the children.
RAW DATA: Click here to read the Last Will of Michael Joseph Jackson
Eric George, Rowe's attorney, did not immediately return a message seeking comment.
Jackson's youngest child, Prince Michael II, 7, was born to a surrogate mother who has never been identified.
Jackson's will, which was filed Wednesday, put his entire estate in a family trust, and named his mother Katherine as the guardian of his children. Rowe was specifically excluded as a beneficiary in the document, which read: "I have intentionally omitted to provide for my former wife, DEBORAH JEAN ROWE JACKSON."
MORE: Click here to read more on this story from NBC-LA.
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Hell, I want to be the Nanny :o This is a big mess-when I die, there won't be anything to fight over--I'm quite sure my son doesnt want my clothes :lol: This will go on for a long time. I think that last baby is mine! I read that people who donate their sperm have no legal rights--what about surrogate Mothers? Michael looked like he was in excellent shape during that rehersal. I remember years ago when you could buy diet pills OTC--I was full of energy to, (or should I say also)? Talk at you later boo.
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