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translated from eluniversaledomex- tontico Mex. & Waukegan
#11
goodintentions Wrote:I have never been one for situational ethics. I don't know what I would do if I was born in their country. I can however deal in reality. We need real solutions now. We don't need some wild ideas about where we came from or where we are headed - or what should have happened. We need fixes for today and we need them today. Going forward what can be done to right the wrongs? How can we live like this? How can we continue caring for people that are not our own? People who would rather be in their own country? People who's only goal is to make money to send home - or save enough to go home one day? Does the USA really have to suffer in the mean time? Do our citizens - who have worked hard to buy property - a piece of the American Dream - do we really have to suffer just because some one was born here - and doesn't really want to be here?
You don't answer my questions either.
Your question? Why it doesn't bother me? I think I thought it was a rhetorical question but I also think I implied an answer in my posts.

Now another question for you. From the perspective of living in one of the wealthiest countries on Earth, please give me your thoughts about the 20,000 to 30,000 humans who die each day from starvation on this planet?
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#12
Here is an informative video that could be enlightening if you are enlightenable.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI&feature=player_embedded">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl ... r_embedded</a><!-- m -->
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#13
I watched the video - I'm not enlightened. I don't think that its me though. I don't beleive the way to help Waukegan is to focus on the World. I do know we live in a wealthy country. I beleive that God has blessed America in many ways. Perhaps because we chose to allow him a place in our country. There was a time when America believed in God, when the Ten Commandments meant something. When we could pray in school. I know thats sounds stupid to some - but you can't deny that as we've become so enlightened, so ACLU acceptable, so willing to leave God out of everything America has not quite been the same. That being said, that isn't what this was all about. This was about making Waukegan the home town that it used to be.
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#14
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't buy into the whole we are the world. I think we have to take care of us first in able to help anybody else. I learned that on an airplane.
If we are taking care of "us" then we can't have no boundaries. No government could care for everyone. Yeah, I think we have a moral obligation to help those less fortunate. I do believe we should help starving children in Africa. And I believe we should help the homeless in Waukegan.
But I do think there is a right way to Make A Difference. Just accepting that my hometown is going to hell in a handbasket is not my idea of helping out the world. By "Not our own" I meant people that are not US Citizens. Has nothing to do with who my family is. My family came from Europe, but when they arrived - they were Proud to be in America. They wanted to become citizens. They followed the laws - they learned the language - they did not want to be a burden on America. I think we have too many people - both "not our own" and even some Americans that are looking for hand outs - And the bank is broken.
Thats all I'm saying. Now what? The bank is broken.
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#15
The problems of Waukegan are deeply rooted. Those roots lead to a faulty system. In other words Waukegans problems are systemic and unless you address the root causes you are merely addressing only the symptoms and very little if anything at all will ever change for the better.

We are all in this together... everyone on the planet. The interconnectedness of us all is an inevitable process and a consequence of the nature of it. Like it or not it, either we will deal with it or we will leave that task to our children or grandchildren. We HAVE to come together in some kind of collaborative more sane way on this planet or the future is non-existent. We tend to have our thinking locked in old ways that are no longer viable and valid. It is the unfortunate human trait that we tend to be "self appointed defenders of the status quo".

At this point we, as a human species, have to make a decision. We are at a crossroads in human social evolution. Either we learn to collaborate with one another in some way or we destroy ourselves and/or the planet. Like Curly from the Three Stooges used to say, we are "victims of circumstance". We now have a much better understanding of the true potential of what humans can be and what we truly are. We have been led astray from that reality by circumstance. To not follow that knowledge would be irresponsible and negligent to the whole human species.
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#16
goodintentions Wrote:We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't buy into the whole we are the world. I think we have to take care of us first in able to help anybody else. I learned that on an airplane.
If we are taking care of "us" then we can't have no boundaries. No government could care for everyone. Yeah, I think we have a moral obligation to help those less fortunate. I do believe we should help starving children in Africa. And I believe we should help the homeless in Waukegan.
But I do think there is a right way to Make A Difference. Just accepting that my hometown is going to hell in a handbasket is not my idea of helping out the world. By "Not our own" I meant people that are not US Citizens. Has nothing to do with who my family is. My family came from Europe, but when they arrived - they were Proud to be in America. They wanted to become citizens. They followed the laws - they learned the language - they did not want to be a burden on America. I think we have too many people - both "not our own" and even some Americans that are looking for hand outs - And the bank is broken.
Thats all I'm saying. Now what? The bank is broken.
The bank is broken because it is within an economic model that guarantees it will fail at some point in time. It's easy to be "distracted" by peripheral issues such as immigrants or welfare people as the causes of our problems and not see the whole picture. Find the true root causes and then you are getting somewhere.

The belief in the process of helping ourselves first so we can help others later, is not based in fact but is pure propaganda. It's not going to ever happen under the current economic system for our system perpetuates scarcity. Just like the game "musical chairs" our economic system guarantees that there will always be people left out.
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#17
If I believe as you do, then I would have no hope. We're doomed.
I'll just continue on my un-enlightened path - believing that there is an answer
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#18
goodintentions Wrote:If I believe as you do, then I would have no hope. We're doomed.
I'll just continue on my un-enlightened path - believing that there is an answer
Oh, but there is hope. But you'd have to be willing to give up the distorted traditional, static, divisive ideas and ideals that you may be holding near and dear and be willing to accept the empirical reality.

It is based in fairly recent (less than a generation) understanding of our social evolution and our true emergent nature. It has to do with giving up our old traditional static system which had it's beginnings a long time ago and was based on limited knowledge and has perpetuated itself for many many years, and replacing it with something more in tune with reality. To learn more watch this lecture. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amIpK9CVtt8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amIpK9CVtt8</a><!-- m -->

Also please see the thread I just posted elsewhere on this forum concerning that lecture. I included a transcript of a portion of it. I'd be happy to discuss or debate that lecture with you or anyone else.
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#19
I would definitely do the same and leave a country that was so horrible and
unsafe and where there are less freedoms and on and on....
as one person put out there, in an earlier post.

I'm so happy I was born in America. I'm so glad my family game here and became AMERICANS
and Melted into the Melting pot, so I could have a better easier
life. I know I could never survive in most of countries I see
shown on the news daily. Daily life for them seems awful, just awful.
But my family worked hard to assimilate into the American way of life
by learning the English language and local customs at the same time, holding
on to our cultural heritage and passing it on to the next generations

There's nothing wrong with the desire of an illegal alien to provide a better life for his family.
but we can't ignore what is happening in our Country. The reality is that illegal immigration is negatively
impacting almost every facet of our society.

Is everyone's afraid to talk about it because
it's not politically correct? Are we all just lazy and we lost our "fight"
Is The lack of action on a national level by Congress because it is all about money and power?
Every illegal alien counted in the census adds up towards seats in Congress and affects the distribution of federal tax dollars.
Those national political fat cats, are never going to do what's right. So maybe We need to stand up for what's right on a local level .
Why are most in political office so wussified!? We need to stop sitting by, watching the destruction

Don't come to America if you don't want to become an American
and if you can't act with respect for this country.

Don't forget how much dieing and fighting and work it took (and takes) to
have the daily freedoms we have every day and take for granted.
Many younger folks who have lived life in such a cushy time in our American history, maybe we don't
have a good comprehension of the sacrifices, because we didn't and don't experience it first hand.

Don't try and turn America into
ANOTHER country which wasn't good enough for you in the first place.
Remember you left to pursue the great AMERICAN dream.
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